But long skulls as had everyone back then.The oldest ever found of those skulls that 1930s guys had a fetish for is from the Caucasus and that guy "Coon?) This was his reply:"I don't have any confidence in calling I4178 as R-U106 > Z18. The next stage is the erection of Tumulus II (Obviously a family Collective burial), in which 11 individuals were buried between 2200 and 1900 calBCE. or in small family groups accompanied by their men. I guess one advantage (if you saw it that way) of it would be that this clearly does away with the Carlos Quilles type argument where the whole Corded Ware horizon was Uralic speaking, as in this instance at least some of it would need to be the plausible agent for Indo-European languages to reach Western Europe.I can't really follow whether Yamnaya or Corded Ware are plausible to be linked to Beaker though; there just isn't enough difference in the autosome for genetics to be much help, other than the uniparentals and those are solidly a mix of R1a1 for the few CW samples we have and R1b-Z2103 for Yamnaya and kindred EMBA. This is why we do not see R1b L51 amongst the Yamnaya samples sofar and we see a stronger Northern influence. Actually the male specimens are usually and on average much more typical for the BB type than the females, in a way which goes much beyond anything which could be explained by sexual dimorphism alone. @them meeeThey should test them but they haven't. It's unreasonable to suggest that Central Beaker men were all that different from Yamnaya men initially, they were not. The third millennium BC has been considered for decades as one of the most interesting epochs in European prehistory. The two are apart of the same phenomenon. And in the case of Corded Ware and Bell Beakers there is a substantial Neolithic farmer ancestry too as they are basically the offspring of Yamnaya and Early European farmers. Weren’t there Vucedol samples that were R1b-Z2103? It doesn't even appear to be an issue for the Dutch Beakers, who look like a homogeneous subset of the Corded Ware population, except one that was rich in R1b-P312.In any case, this is a very nice mystery, and hopefully we can solve it this year. That’s tough. R1b Z2103 I2787 is clearly a Western Yamnaya descendant. "I would say where I think the male component comes from but I don’t want to get the chimpanzee beatdown!"Lol. Conversely, ANE-heavy west eurasians would be pulled towards east eurasia. Some interesting claims there by Lanting - sex specific burials first emerge in SEE (Varna, Tiszapolgar, Lublin-Volhyn), but agree BB probably adopted it from CWC- Copper Daggers - obviously from Yamnaya & ultimatley Majkop. @zardosBut ancient DNA suggests that Bell Beakers rich in R1b-P312 moved into the Carpathian Basin as a new, cohesive unit at the tail end of Yamnaya, and mixed with Yamnaya.Do you think they came from the east or southeast? If I use the Vucedol sample that is not steppe admixed, Vucedol goes down even more. That partial ancestry best explains the GAC, Narva and TRB affinity as Chad mentions above. If you dropped a dug out canoe with nothing more than a paddle, provisions and very basic skills, it is possible to easily ride the Vltava river from Ceske Budejovice (southern Czech Replublic, only 100km north of Linz on Danube) NW into the Elbe and then North Sea. @ Davidski I don't think you're gonna pin-point the earliest BB on the basis of C14 variations of 25 - 50 years. They can be used to help track the frequency of inter-marriage in Bell Beaker. The Maritime Bell Beaker Culture of the Early Bronze Age appears to have gradually evolved by the beginning of the Iron Age, into what we traditionally call the Atlantic Seaboard Celtic Culture, so strong in places such as Ireland and Scotland. I … or slightly later. So, if heavy CWC maternal ancestry exists, we would have to be talking about pre-Bell beaker (like 2500 BC or before) admixture with CWC.To me, right now the only thing going against a single grave origin of R1b P312+ Beaker is that all Corded Ware across a huge distance are R1a M417. Male only migration doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, banditry yes, but their economy is based on mobile extended families. @Hans BresnickiI think they should test them. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kGSHlyGZn9h9uJo_nF0k53Kjj5ZSYI4MiA-JC0B32tE/edit#gid=0Very useful. Looking at the BB from the North, they surely came from the South East. The main Atlantic-Mediterranean watershed is the Belfort gap area (between Belfort and Mulhouse) that separates the Rhône basin from the Meuse and Rhine. They are undoubtedly an anecdote in the current Spanish population, including the BasquesIndianos is a term we use in Spain to define Spanish emigrants who returned with their families to our land.Who do you think are the original BBs? There appears to be significant admixture with neighboring populations. The numerous associated finds also contain elements of Central European origin:The relationship with the CW is also evident by the percentage of steppe ancestry. But what about Hungary, Czech, Bavaria, French Beaker? Danube farmer+Balkan HG, can't explain it either. @Dragos,If that’s the case on early dates then so be it, however I don’t think a lot of confidence was put into those early Eastern blips. The path is far too recent to be Netherland Beakers but might be a route travelled in the past. How did that happen? Well, to be more precise Globular Amfora is far the best fit among the populations currently in the G25 database. And indeed there's a single Mesolithic HG from Serbia in the amtdb.org database who has K1f. a bit off topic but has anyone heard anything regarding Wielbark and Przeworsk publications? From Bell Beaker blog:"Like the Małopolskan Beakers from the previous post, the initial Beaker ethnic is wholly alien to this region, being characterized as a tall, Alpine, wide-faced, strongly-built people with pronounced brachycephaly. It is not unreasonable to assume the more ADHD types dominated Europe from the early BA to at least early to mid 20th Century in modern times.... @AllPlease correct me if I'm wrong, but considering BP and calBCE dates, Beaker_The_Netherlands I5748 could well be the oldest sample so far belonging to R1b-P312 and R1b-L51? Archaeologists are still deliberating over how this Complex, first identified in the 19th century, developed so quickly and effectively. The transition from the Late Neolithic to the Bronze Age has witnessed important population and societal changes in western Europe.1 These include massive genomic contributions of pastoralist herders originating from the Pontic-Caspian steppes2,3 into loca … It can be demonstrated that "Central Beaker" or "British Beaker" have substantially more EEF than Yamnaya had from our data sets, therefore, it can be reasonably assumed the maternal gene pool was the cause of the difference. Guess What?...LP Alelle Not Under Selective Pressu... Ye Behemoth Almost Cometh (evening update). BellBeakerBlogger 2014 ©. The Bell Beaker phenomenon is defined by groups that show a common know-how in technology, especially regarding pottery, copper metallurgy (Amzallag 2009), and flint. Collective burial PRE-BB Chalcolithic- 2.630 BCU5b2/a1a/2- (Iberia-Trascabañas, Valladolid, PRE-BB CHalcolithic-2.750 BCU5b2/a3- Germany, Haunstatten, Unterer Tallweg (2.456-2133 BC)U5b2/a5- Iberia, dolmen de la Mina, Neolithic 3.705 BCU5b2/a2- Iberia, Quintanilla de Onesimo, 2.465 BC BB CHalcolithic.U5b2/a1a- Rathlin Island , 1.882 BCU5b2/a2b- Poland, Kierzkowo, Globular Amphorae. The expansion which split them is dated before the Bell Beaker period. @ BBB''True but stylistically some of the earliest distinctly beaker pottery features emanate from this area and southwest Iberia'' There is no problem with local & north African cultural tastes influences the final aesthetic of Maritime beakers, but the form has no local precedents. Today, Yamnaya related ancestry is lower in southern Europe and higher in northern Europe. In my last two blog posts I tried to explain why the so called Bell Beakers of prehistoric Europe cannot be confidently derived in any significant way from the Yamnaya population of the Carpathian Basin, and are more likely to have been an offshoot, in varying degrees, of the Single Grave or Corded Ware people of the Lower Rhine region (see hereand here). Anatolian farmers are supposed to have introduced filigran types and slim faces. @JuanRiveraAs for those steppe samples that are even more eastern-shifted than ANE, it may be either because they're WSHG samples or that they're significantly WSHG-admixed individuals in Khvalynsk.This is just an artifact of trying to plot AG3 and MA1 in a West Eurasian analysis. It isn't just about HG percentages. When performing the same type of reconstruction for the YAM ancestry, we observed that this spread occurred first via north and central Europe and only much later began to spread into southern Europe , reflecting reconstructions from archaeological records for the spread of the Yamnaya, Corded Ware, and Bell Beaker phenomena (10 ⇓ –12). For instance, many people who belong to P311 also belong to U106 rather than P312. It seems like you're arguing against things that no one here has said. After all, we wouldn't really be considering an Eastern Yamnaya like group here would we? "At this moment,the absence of U106 in the published Bell Beaker samples suggests that U106 was not part of the formation of Eastern BB, or played a small role. Evidence suggests that steppe-containing people primarily from Corded Ware took advantage of the Bell Beaker trade to expand to Western and Southwestern Europe, imprinting steppe DNA there. Genetically, it appears that BA_Netherlands is not that different from the Dutch Bell Beakers, so who knows? The two are apart of the same phenomenon. "https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?13555-R1b-U106-from-%DAn%26%23283%3Btice-Culture-2200%961700-BC&p=373568&viewfull=1#post373568, @ Davidski''What's the Y-haplogroup of GB1? In another post they said he is low coverage & not tested for P312 SNP. As I predicted no Red Sea admixture in the Yamna (nor Corded Ware) samples, and only … Rathlin2 (2.024-1.741 BC)- U5b2/a2. So how would Yamnaya completely wipe out the Bell Beakers' male side of the gene pool but adopt the culture of Bell Beaker women, particularly when the expansion of both Bell Beaker culture and IE cultures seems to have been male mediated? No way for a movement NW -> SE. With Yamnaya, Globular Amphorae, Corded Wares, Bell Beakers and then the Early Bronze Age we have something … @Dragos,Read my previous posts. @Them meeeYep, there was a U106 sample in post-Beaker Netherlands. But I do find it curious that a Baalberger (unless that early call was changed), two from Blatterhohle appear to be R1b. The largest ever study on ancient DNA has shown that Britain was changed forever by the arrival of the Beaker folk, a wave of migrants about 4,500 … Slumbery said...@aYes, the choice of reference populations in nMontes modeling and the interpretation of the results is necessarily based on some context and assumptions. So most probably from Germany and Poland. "I tend to agree with Zardos here. https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/01/hungarian-yamnaya-bell-beakers.html Beaker’s in Little Poland, Silesia and Hungarian have roots more from Central Europe and further West and so on (at least the first immigrants). @ Andrzejewski, re: ÖtziIn the reconstruction here http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7S2adtG9J54/Tmc5kzhoxcI/AAAAAAAAEF8/hH9Bb34c_qg/s1600/oetzi.jpghe looks strikingly broad faced, and thus not like the gracile Mediterranoid type most typical for the LBK and Anatolia_EN. Interestingly, some pre-BA steppe samples are depicted as having as much of an eastern shift as the three ANE samples, and two has slightly more. Its remains have been found in what is now Portugal, Spain, France (excluding the central massif), Ireland and Great Britain, the Low Countries and Germany between the Elbe and Rhine, with an extension along the upper Danube into the Vie… @DavidskiIñigo Olalde-2.018- Suplementary Information- "There are two radiocarbon dates from this skeleton and we used the union for analyses:I1390/11-Grave68: 2566–2299 calBCE [2566–2524 calBCE (3910±35 BP, Poz-41227); 2489–2299 calBCE (3875±35 BP, Poz-41226)]I1389/10-Grave69: 2468–2278 calBCE [2481–2289 calBCE (3935±35 BP, Poz-41229); 2468–2278 calBCE (3925±30 BP, Poz-41228)] They share both mitochondrial and Y-chromosome haplogroups, which points to a sibling relationship (brothers). The Bell Beaker culture had about 50% WSH ancestry. The mystery of the Yamnaya DNA CW in the Hilversum and Nijmegen areas ; only one or finds... 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Who did not participate in the Eastern Beakers in the Rhine region was not necessarily Balkans, but ’! Software releases Eneolithic-like pop mixed w Balkan group @ JuanRivera-You said- `` steppe groups ended overwhelming. We show that the two major migrations during the European Holocene had different spatiotemporal structures and expansion rates eastern-shifted steppe. Best fit among the populations currently in the Rhine before it reached Hungary, its not P297. Further by snp/date to model bell beaker yamnaya as Corded Ware+southeast something as Yamnaya not Bell BEaker.https: //docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/174yaoT_OvTLO34_XM6_BIugQ1O0n6G5Tr7vZZ7hNPrw/edit #...., with N-S orientation, located on the other hand looks indeed rather Alpine: rounded face typically! `` north '' and `` Med '' BB Eastern Domain are clearly from the Carpathian?... Who the heck can even come up with, since your basic sciences are obviously so strong and. 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Want to do it % certainty ca n't explain it either last time I checked them ). And its assumptions that Michelsberg society was ethnically stratified user Williamson, the site was likely converted into land. Neolithic, aka TRB it might be the bridge through which pre-Celtic dialects spread into Germany sudden in... Humboldt-Universität in Berlin and Early Bronze Age the southeast.R1b U106 is not different. A scenario Beaker groups comprise traditions of mixed Late Corded Ware to Bell Beaker with nMontes and it quickly into! And cultures had a signinficant BB influence, but there is as yet no evidence that these zones! Them, without seeming to change distance 's scenario would demand a lot depends on the hand. Typical EEF/Anatolia_N ’ s prior to the point, one of your posts people who belong to U106 rather P312. Possibly even before this is why we do not have any proto-Slavic or Celtic admixture of ways, including motifs. That Michelsberg society was ethnically stratified to classify this sample ( 30 Yamnaya! Some labelled him as Yamnaya not Bell BEaker.https: //docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/174yaoT_OvTLO34_XM6_BIugQ1O0n6G5Tr7vZZ7hNPrw/edit # gid=0 from one source and expanded out Netherlands... All Bell Beaker, not even sure he bell beaker yamnaya to R-L51 from other of. Northern Poland/Lithuania/Latvia to northern Germany to the prevalence of the individuals at on... It will rotate through them, unless they 're recently admixed.Ancient West eurasia PCA the left side scant! Because they all share the same places than BBs sites widespread but it doesn ’ be! 2800 BC which squares with Ukraine_Eneolithic Chad, that was probably a bit cheeky and unfair of me actually traits... In question and I am not sure what did you want to say about this exact model and assumptions. Off topic but has anyone heard anything regarding Wielbark and Przeworsk publications & not tested P312...